Question: "On Clear Day, I Can See Forever . . " How many miles is "Forever?"

Tue 7 Sep 2010 - 5:40 pm UTC

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ANSWERED on Thu 18 Sep 2008 - 9:09 pm UTC by pinkfreud

Question: "On Clear Day, I Can See Forever . . " How many miles is "Forever?"

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Asked by schmooz on Thu 18 Sep 2008 - 4:31 am UTC:

On a pristine, clear day - if I am standing on a 20th floor balcony on
Clearwater Beach, looking straight out over the Gulf of Mexico:  

1.  Approximately how many miles out is my horizon (as far as I can see)
from my 20th floor vantage point?  (Don’t skimp – go for generous
estimation , I’m tall)
 
2.   If there was an object about 150 feet (OK, an oil rig, however tall
they are) . . . . anchored on the horizon you have just calculated, how
many more miles would have to be added to that calculation in order for the
very top of the oil rig to disappear from my sight and all I see is blue
(or green) Gulf Water?

3.   US Territorial waters extend out 12 miles from our shoreline, right? 
In theory, an oil drilling company from another country could set up their
oil rig 15 miles from our shore and start drilling?  OK, lets’ drop the
“theory” and go for the reality (pretending that we have no treaties in
place with this country ?    

Nope – this is not my homework assignment!  I’m a little past school
age . . .  well OK, a lot past it!  But – you see where I am going with
these questions.

The question will be answered by whatever information you can provide for
me and I would like to see the links to where you found the information.

Also – I would really appreciate comments from other Researchers and
UClue-ers.

Comment by User myoarin on Thu 18 Sep 2008 - 9:50 am UTC:

Hi Schmooz,

USA (and other countries') claim 12 nautical miles as territorial waters,
about 15% more than 12 miles.  I am sure that on a clear day from the 20th
floor you could see something beyond that distance, but I'll leave it to a
Researcher to answer your question.

My websearch let me know why you're interested: all the talk about lifting
the ban on offshore drilling.

The risk of a foreign oil rig outside US waters is relatively minor, since
offshore wells are connected by pipelines to shore, making it rather
unfeasable to link even several wells by pipelines to (also) offshore
holding tanks with a capacity to fill tankers.

But who knows, maybe it will happen.

Myoarin

Question clarification by schmooz on Thu 18 Sep 2008 - 6:31 pm UTC:

Thanks for the comment Myoarin!  I guess I forgot to mention that
Clearwater Beach is in Florida on the Gulf of Mexico waterfront, about half
way down (or up) the state.  BTW - there are NO 20 story buildings on the
beach. My question(s) are just to gain (and pass on) perspective.  :)

Does anyone know if Pinkfreud is still around?  I signed up with UClue
several months ago and saw that she was listed as a researcher.  When I
wanted to ask the question(s) above, I could not remember the name of this
website.  Even though I queried Google and Yahoo every way I could think of
I still could not find it!  

So - I went to that "joke" Yahoo Answers website and tried to locate UClue
by posting the following:  
"What Internet Answers Service did some researchers (Pinkfreud) go to after
Google Answers Closed?"  
The First Response to my question was:
"I am going to misspell this because it will get deleted, O_p_e_r_a
community....  grysmn - 374 Total answers 

Well - I did not recognize the name and you just gotta know I had to check
it out in case Pinkfreud . .  was connected to it in any way.  WELL, NOW
I'M-A-BLUSHIN "PINK" AND AM LOOKING FOR A "FREUD" TO REMOVE THE TRAUMA TO
THIS OLE-BEACH-GIRL!!!!!  Yipes!

Uclue Researcher Answer by Researcher pinkfreud on Thu 18 Sep 2008 - 9:09 pm UTC:

Howdy-hi, Carolyn! It's great to see you again.

You're asking questions on a subject about which I know very little. Or at
least I used to know very little. Working as an online researcher certainly
expands one's horizons (metaphorically speaking).

I've researched the matter, and here's what I found:

Let's estimate that your 20th-floor viewpoint is 61 meters above the
ground. We'll add 1.7 meters for your own height, for a total of 62.7
meters. If you are not comfortable with metric units, there is a nifty
conversion tool here:

http://www.worldwidemetric.com/metcal.htm

The radius of the Earth is 6378 kilometers, according to this Wolfram
Research site: 

http://scienceworld.wolfram.com/astronomy/EarthRadius.html

OK, now we're ready to do the math, as described here:

"The distance to the horizon can be calculated, in metric units, using the
formula d = sqrt(h(2r+h)), where sqrt is the square root, h is the height
of the observer (or rather his eyes) above sea level and r is the radius of
the planet. All units are in meters. The distance (d) you get out of this
formula is the distance in direct line from the observer's eyes to the
horizon." 

http://www.pvv.org/~bcd/shadowworld/info/horizon.html

And our results are as follows:

d = sqrt(h(2r+h))

d = sqrt(.0627(12756+.0627))

d = sqrt(799.8)

d = 28.3 kilometers

So, on a clear day on your balcony, if you stand up nice and straight and
don't slouch, you can see approximately 28.3 kilometers, which is about
17.5 miles.

An object 150 feet away (about 45.7 meters) would need to move out to sea
28.2 kilometers in order to disappear from your view. Of course, it would
have to be a very large object in order to remain in view at that
distance.

"Determine the actual distance to the target structure (we'll refer to this
as 'the target distance' in the following). Then determine the distance to
the horizon from the observer's position. If the distance to the horizon is
larger than the target distance, then the target might be seen by the
observer."

http://www.pvv.org/~bcd/shadowworld/info/horizon.html

You don't need to worry that your view will be occluded by a foreign oil
rig, though. Although territorial waters extend 12 miles from the coast,
the Exclusive Economic Zone (which deals with marine resources such as
petroleum exploration) extends 200 nautical miles (370 kilometers):

"The Exclusive Economic Zone starts at the coastal baseline and extends 200
nautical miles out into the sea, perpendicular to the baseline."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Exclusive_Economic_Zone

I hope this helps!

Best always,
Pink

(NOTE: There is a person called "pinkfreud" who posts at Yahoo! Answers. He
is a male from India, and is most emphatically not the pinkfreud-ga from
Google Answers. I have posted exactly one answer at Yahoo! Answers, under
the handle "pinkfreud_ga.")

Uclue Researcher Comment by Researcher Roger Browne (eiffel) on Thu 18 Sep 2008 - 9:50 pm UTC:

Hi schmooz,

I have some further information for the second part of your question. The
Petronius Oil Platform, a large platform in the Gulf of Mexico, sticks out
75 meters above the water. Using the formula that pinkfreud posted, its
horizon is 31 kilometers away. In other words, someone at the top of the
oil platform would be able to see 31km to their horizon.

From your 20th floor balcony, it would be 28.3 kilometers to your horizon
(as pinkfreud calculated), then a further 31 kilometers to the tip of the
oil platform (which would not be visible to you because it would coincide
with your horizon).

Therefore, any 75-meter oil platform would need to be at least 59.3km away
in order not to be visible from your imaginary 20th floor balcony.

The summing of distances to the observer's horizon and the target's horizon
is explained and illustrated clearly here:

"How far is the horizon"
http://www.boatsafe.com/kids/distance.htm


Reference:

Petronius oil platform - Wikipedia
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Petronius_Platform

Comment by schmooz on Fri 19 Sep 2008 - 4:14 am UTC:

Hiya Pink!!!!  

When I finally found UClue last night, I took a few minutes to look through
the recent posts and did not see your name – so – I thought you might
have moved on.  In my Question “Clarification” I asked about you.  

I had no idea that you would pick up my question but I am soooo glad you
did!  WOWOWOW PINK!  Your answer was GREAT, above and beyond . . . your
reputation continues!  I will shortly close and rate your answer!  (Where
do you locate 24.5 stars . . . OK, 25 stars? On UClue?) 

While we don’t live on the 20th floor or in a high rise, I so appreciate
all the information you provided and I will use it often.  I am getting
pretty weary of the discussions, here in Flooooreeeeeedaaa, on off-shore
drilling that begin and end with, “oil rigs will spoil our beautiful
view,”  when we need to be debating economic hardship, energy
independence and environmental protection because we have to get this
right, the first time.  The great information you have provided will help
me make quick mince-meat of the “view” argument and change the debate. 
 

Whatdaya think Pink?  In this time of economic hardship and the finally
recognized need for energy independence, do you think we can drill
off-shore, build new oil refineries, build new nuclear plants AND still
find a way to protect the beautiful, God-given environment?  I would really
love to read any of your thoughts or views on any of this or anything
related (or not related too  ).  This is not an additional question and
requires no response from you at all.  Every once-in-a-while, I’ll
re-look through this well-answered question, to see if the inspiration
strikes you and turns into words of insight and wisdom that jump out of
your computer and into a comment box!      

Glad you picked up my question.  
Regards 2-ya,  Carolyn

Accepted and rated by schmooz on Fri 19 Sep 2008 - 4:30 am UTC:

So very sad that I cannot locate 25 stars because my question could not
have been answered any better! This is my first UClue question and I am
extremely pleased by the quality and debth of the answer provided by
Pinkfreud who is totally awesome! 

I also want to thank UClue Researchers Myoarin and Eiffel for adding their
helpful comments.  

Where is the location of 25 stars?

Comment by User myoarin on Fri 19 Sep 2008 - 8:30 am UTC:

"25 stars"

Hi Carolyn,

You could, of course, ask four more questions ...  ;-)

Myo

Accepted and rated by schmooz on Fri 6 Mar 2009 - 12:48 am UTC:

Pink,
Iam so glad I found a way to get back into this rating. We pretty much lost
everything . . . not a complaint, just a reality BUT we still have our God,
our children and our health . . . well, maybe the last one is wishful
thinking.  Your answer to this question was soooooooooooo exceptional, I am
sharing a gift to me, with you.  I'm sorry that I just gave you 5 upper
case "8s" instead of upper case "4s."  I am rectifying that now . .
.wishing it were even more for quality-Pink answers.

Hope YOUR health is better.  You probably do not remember that you got
answers for me that helped me in going through the end process of my
father's life.  I am now doing that with my Mom, using some of the same
things you researched for me.  Thx.

Uclue Researcher Comment by Researcher pinkfreud on Fri 6 Mar 2009 - 1:13 am UTC:

Dear Carolyn,

Many thanks for the kind words, the upper-case "8s," and the upper-case
"4s." I'd like to express my appreciation with a bunch of upper-case "1s,"
but that might make my keyboard think that I am "shifty." ;-) 

~Pink

Request for clarification by schmooz on Mon 22 Jun 2009 - 2:30 pm UTC:

Pink
No further Clarification is requested on this question nor is any response
at all.  It is my hope that (like Google Answers) this reaches you with
this message.

I hope that you are feeling better and that there are positive resolutions
in store for you quickly.  I find that if I am on my back, God has me
looking up and while I cannot do the "physical lifting" at that time, my
job and value is to do the "Spiritural lifting up" of those I love,. . . or
hate . . . and our country . . . . AND about the things that scare me or
depress me . . . . .  You will continue to be in my thoughts and prayers
until I see your name floating around UClue again.  

Here is a great website that as a "WordSmith" you will love browsing. 
Words are so amazing and God has given you the gift of twisting them and
piling them together to share insight, humor and your feelings (bad or
good).  It is a gift that is left with you while you are up or down.  

http://phrontistery.info/a.html

I truly hope the best for you - in health and happiness.

Carolyn at [email address deleted by admin - sorry!] in Floreeeeeeeeeeeeda.
 Don't lose touch I would like to read any of your stories or rhymes that
are on websites around.  
NO RESPONSE OR CLARIFICATION OR ACKNOWLEDGMENT is asked for at all on this
question. (Also, Do not worry at all about my AARP Question.)

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