31 Jul 2009 16:41 UTCFri 31 Jul 2009 - 4:41 pm UTC
Right, here's a nice easy cheap one!
I apologize by the way for the category, which is not meant to represent any sort of disrespect to Mr Allingham. It's just that I want a question answered about bugle calls ... well, where would *you* put it? We don't seem to have a category for "warlike communications, obsolete" :)
Anyway, please have a look/listen at the video here:
Fast forward to about 3:53 (or indeed listen though to the grandson's very nice speech) where it cuts from the coffin in the church to the pallbearers carrying it out. At that moment a trumpet player starts up and plays a nice short call.
My question is simply:
Who is the trumpet player, and what call is he playing?
Things to note: I do know a tiny little bit about this area. If your inclination is to say "oh that's the Last Post and it's just a bugle" then, with the greatest of respect, you are perhaps not the right person to answer this. I don't say that to be horrid, just to save aggro. Let me spell it out a little.
*After* the trumpet player to whom I'm referring, two Royal Marine buglers did indeed play the Last Post. But it's not the same guys, not the same tune. I'm not asking about them (unless you're after the tip, see below!)
The guy I'm asking about is wearing a uniform unfamiliar to me, perhaps French - he has a French-style cap on and those splendid shoulder board things with curtains. (Yes, I do know that a librarian is about to tell me what they are called: thank you in advance!) The RM guys are immediately to his L in the closing moments of the video. They are holding standard pattern British military bugles and he's got a more trumpetlike instrument. We can't be sure what it is just on a look so it could be technically either, just a different pattern, but I'm preferring to think of it as a trumpet. (But this is NOT a question about the instrument type, and it is NOT about valves, so I suggest not going there.)
So, he's a possibly-foreign chap - what is he? That's one thing. (I don't mean I want his name, rank and serial number by the way - I mean what service/country/whatever does he represent? In other words, what uniform is that?
The other thing is - what call does he play? It's not the Last Post. Or specifically, it is not the British Infantry Last Post as played at 99.999% of such events, and as it's about to be played by the Marines. I don't think it's the cavalry LP either though I do not have it to hand. I think it may be some non-UK tune of equivalent effect. The Last Post begins on a written low C and goes up to the G; this tune starts on that written middle G and goes up to the C above. What is it? That's the other half of my question,
I was going to ask a tiny bit more for a tip but I've realized it's better as a second Q, so watch out for that... coming up next, as they say.
To accept the answer I would need a statement of who the player is and what he's playing (the title of the piece), and I would need to be able to verify these for myself by seeing the uniform and the music, or a performance, online. Does that sound fair?
31 Jul 2009 17:02 UTCFri 31 Jul 2009 - 5:02 pm UTC
BOTHER! My 2nd question will have to wait a while as I just managed to lose it all and don't have time to rekey it. It's less fun and challenging than this one anyway, and I *might* still be able to answer it myself (whereas I _know_ that I can't so anything much with the first), so please don't hold your breath for the 2nd one - but do have fun with this! Cheers, N.
31 Jul 2009 17:20 UTCFri 31 Jul 2009 - 5:20 pm UTC
Right, so the mystery player is apparently French - see:
However, that doesn't quite nail it, as it's inaccurate and imprecise. What service did the French player represent, and what did he play? The MoD article says: "Royal Marines buglers sounded the Last Post and a bugler from the French Armed Forces sounded a reveille" but I suspect that isn't quite right. It went:
1. Mr French bloke plays a piece
2. 2 RM buglers play the Last Post
3. a silence
4. The 2 RM buglers play another piece, billed as Reveille but actually not that or the Rouse either as commonly understood.
It's quite unlikely that the French guy played Reveille, even his own form of it, *before* the LP. I mean you just wouldn't, unless they had to let him in order to avoid a diplomatic incident or something odd. But it would be weird protocol to play *anything* called Reveille before the LP. It's like having dessert first, before the meat course. The MoD doesn't give us a positive ID on what the French bloke played, and that is what I need. Thanks!
By the way, the item played at point (4) above is my next question, if I ever get round to it.
1 Aug 2009 10:18 UTCSat 1 Aug 2009 - 10:18 am UTC
I looked at this last night and again this morning hoping that the newspapers would be more precise in their reporting, but no luck.
The Evening Argus carries only a condensed version of the Order of Service.
Therefore, I have emailed the church to ask they can help with the information. I'll let you know if I receive a reply.
2 Aug 2009 21:47 UTCSun 2 Aug 2009 - 9:47 pm UTC
Thanks! I will be very interested to hear what comes out of this. Maybe I am asking for a level of detail which is simply not achievable, do you think?
PS Don't worry if responses are slow now - I am away for a bit on and off.
5 Aug 2009 08:23 UTCWed 5 Aug 2009 - 8:23 am UTC
Sorry, but it seems that the church do not wish to reply. Perhaps someone else may see this thread and will be able to help you.
21 Aug 2009 17:23 UTCFri 21 Aug 2009 - 5:23 pm UTC
I am not quite sure what this means:
"Can a clarification still be posted generate an email?"
- but I am posting this as a clarification, in case it helps, well, clarify something for you I guess!
31 Aug 2009 12:14 UTCMon 31 Aug 2009 - 12:14 pm UTC
I have been away on holiday but I can see that plenty has been going on in the meantime.
The church kindly replied while I was away. The bugler was "Corporal Pascal Quemere, of the French Army Band (Versailles)".
This appears to be the Musique principale de l'armée de Terre.
Unfortunately, the writer did not confirm the name of the piece of music. Also in the meantime, the church have posted online a copy of the order of service. This is now on
Sadly, it on provides the following:
"In the churchyard, on the path, the procession will stop.
- The bugler sounds the Last Post.
- There will be one minute’s silence followed by Reveille.
- The bell will toll (113) times."
This answers one part of your question, and if I read the above correctly, our ever helpful commentators Myoarin and FP have answered the second. Is it OK to close this question off and post it as answered?
31 Aug 2009 12:30 UTCMon 31 Aug 2009 - 12:30 pm UTC
Ah. Forget the last paragraph. I see the questions already expired. I'm still in holiday mode - half asleep.
1 Sep 2009 07:33 UTCTue 1 Sep 2009 - 7:33 am UTC
Thanks! Amazing stuff - I am going to try my French trumpet contacts and see if anyone knows M. Quemere - it would be excellent to speak directly with him.
In the meantime, this question of dosh, and expiration. Hmmmm - what would be fair - shall I repost it "for your eyes only"? What do people usually do in such a case? Cheers. N
1 Sep 2009 08:06 UTCTue 1 Sep 2009 - 8:06 am UTC
Good day Nevilley,
As the question has expired and you’ve had your money back, I’m happy to leave it as it is, but thanks for the offer. I am sure you will be back with other questions and I hope that I will be able to answer one of them in the future - a little more promptly, I hope.
1 Sep 2009 08:14 UTCTue 1 Sep 2009 - 8:14 am UTC
Phil, that's very decent of you, thanks. I'm not feeling so flush that I will ignore your kind offer and insist on paying, but yes I will most certainly be back!
fp, thanks. The weird thing is I thought I'd positively ID'd Cpl Quemere's uniform (in the BBC video) as the Marines, but this latest info seem to run counter - unless they follow different practices from what I'd expect, or I'm just straightforwardly confused (wouldn't be the first time). I've written to one of my Parisian trumpet buddies on the off chance, so who knows where this will end up ... :)