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ANSWERED on Sun 12 Jun 2011 - 5:17 pm UTC by Paul

Question: The Salinger Affair in Brussels - 1939

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probo 

Customer

 12 Jun 2011 07:42 UTCSun 12 Jun 2011 - 7:42 am UTC 

I have a copy of an MI5 report submitted by Agent U35 - Klop Ustinov, Peter's father - on 21 May 1939 concerning a London-based person with 'left sympathies'.

Klop reported that an associate of this man was said to be involved in the 'Salinger Affair' in Brussels.

My own searches bring up many references to J D Salinger, the author of 'The Catcher in the Rye', but I very much doubt if either he or Pierre Salinger were the Salinger in question. 

Could someone please enlighten me?

Many thanks

Bryan

 

Leli Crawford 

Researcher

 12 Jun 2011 11:40 UTCSun 12 Jun 2011 - 11:40 am UTC 

You might want to look at Hans-Dieter Salinger, a German economist living in the Hague from 1936, but I found nothing about Brussels or a 'Salinger Affair'.

 

David Sarokin 

Researcher

 12 Jun 2011 12:59 UTCSun 12 Jun 2011 - 12:59 pm UTC 

probo...I didn't see anything on this.

In 1925, the UK stopped shipping zinc ore to Belgium and the Belgians turned to US sources instead. A Belgian named Salinger was a prominent player in the trades, but whether he has anything to do with the "Salinger Affair" is a mystery.

Hope something will turn up.


David

 

Paul 

Researcher

 12 Jun 2011 14:04 UTCSun 12 Jun 2011 - 2:04 pm UTC 

I think your man is C G F Salinger (suspected wartime spy) There is a file reference number: HO 45/25709 & 283/62 but the  National Archives site seems to be having some problems today.

From the book:
"In the Highest Degree Odious"

"DETENTION WITHOUT TRIAL IN WARTIME BRITAIN"

C G F Salinger.
"Salinger was detained by an 'acts prejudicial' order of 31 May. The 'Reasons for Order' were not settled until 1 October. Over a month later, on 6 November the committee recommended release; this was accepted on 11 December, almost seven months after his arrest"

"Salinger was released in late 1940"

Files (presumably available from The National Archives)
HO 45/25709 & 283/62

The information above was from the Google book link below.

http://books.google.com/books?id=3b2g1RD5fUAC&pg=PA224&lpg=PA224&dq=Salinger+%2245/25709%22&source=bl&ots=aQSNDsVfXN&sig=0e22n4NpxmckPSb1kniqKDdi-mI&hl=en&ei=9ML0TfX7NoLy0gG-xuzsDA&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=1&ved=0CBUQ6AEwAA#v=onepage&q=Salinger%20%2245%2F25709%22&f=false

Also, it seems Salinger resigned his commission as Lieutenant from the 5th Battalion Royal Sussex Regiment on May 12th 1929.


Without being able to see the files in the National Archives I can't be sure, but I think it's fairly likely, this is the person you are looking for.

All the best

THX1138

 

David Sarokin 

Researcher

 12 Jun 2011 14:18 UTCSun 12 Jun 2011 - 2:18 pm UTC 

Paul...You're my hero!

 

David Sarokin 

Researcher

 12 Jun 2011 14:38 UTCSun 12 Jun 2011 - 2:38 pm UTC 

P.S. The C in his name stands for Cecil.

 

David Sarokin 

Researcher

 12 Jun 2011 14:51 UTCSun 12 Jun 2011 - 2:51 pm UTC 

P.P.S. See the last item in the left-hand column:

http://www.london-gazette.co.uk/issues/37968/pages/2456

 

myoarin 

User

 12 Jun 2011 15:26 UTCSun 12 Jun 2011 - 3:26 pm UTC 

And the double name (with or without hyphen) turns up three links, one from a 1939 Belgian newspaper that is hard to scroll:

http://www.hetutrechtsarchief.nl/collectie/kranten/un/1939/0121

Also this: 
http://www.gazettes-online.co.uk/issues/35116/pages/1767/page.pdf

The third seems to be about his resigning his commission.

Just a little coattail riding on Paul's great effort.

 

probo 

Customer

 12 Jun 2011 15:29 UTCSun 12 Jun 2011 - 3:29 pm UTC 

Many Thanks Leli and David and Obrigado Paul.

Cecil certainly appears to be an interesting character and I will check him out on my next visit to Kew. (The TNA site has worked OK for me.)

In the meantime, I should be obliged if Paul would now hit the Answer Found Button and to prepare himself for receiving an absolute Galaxy of Stars.

All the Best

Bryan

 

probo 

Customer

 12 Jun 2011 16:00 UTCSun 12 Jun 2011 - 4:00 pm UTC 

Many thanks Myo.

Your link to the Utrechts Archive looks very promising and I have now found 4 articles that are relevant.

These certainly endorse Paul's work although, as you said, the site is not easy to navigate.

But, silly me, I never realised that Utrecht used to be in Belgium. The last time I was there it was in Bohemia - I think. Or was it Poland?

These places are always changing their boundaries. It's very confusing.

All the Best

Bryan

 

myoarin 

User

 12 Jun 2011 16:15 UTCSun 12 Jun 2011 - 4:15 pm UTC 

Anything west of where I live is a white area on the map  - in my mind -  populated by people who can't speak proper German (not that I can).

Glad you found four more articles.

Cheers,  Myo

 

Paul 

Answer

 12 Jun 2011 17:17 UTCSun 12 Jun 2011 - 5:17 pm UTC 

Hello again Bryan,

I'm glad that we seem to have identified Cecil Salinger as the person you were seeking.

The National Archives site was working, but the search function didn't seem to work properly.  I thought at first it might be due to strike action, but then I saw that if they do strike it will be on the 30th of June.  Worth bearing in mind if you are planning a trip to the archives on that day.

"Possible strike action to affect on site services "
The Public and Commercial Services union (PCS) is currently holding a ballot proposing a national strike on Thursday 30 June.

The strike has not yet been confirmed, but should it go ahead there may be disruption to our on site services on this day. We would therefore urge visitors who are planning to come to The National Archives to arrange their visit for an alternative day.
http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/

I see that the Kurt Jahnke question from Google Answers days is now listed almost at the top of Google at number 2 out of 2,810 results for a search of "Kurt Jahnke"

All the best

Paul

 

David Sarokin 

Researcher

 12 Jun 2011 17:35 UTCSun 12 Jun 2011 - 5:35 pm UTC 

The National Archives site is working for me, and shows two records for your man, Cecil:



Record Summary


Scope and content
 WAR: Defence Regulation 18B Detainees: SALINGER, Cecil Gerald Furnivall

Covering dates
 1940

Note
 See also HO 283/62

Held by
The National Archives, Kew

Former reference (Department)
 840251 Sub 1

Legal status
 Public Record(s)



Hope that's a bit useful.

 

probo 

Customer

 12 Jun 2011 17:44 UTCSun 12 Jun 2011 - 5:44 pm UTC 

Many thanks Paul

I've now discovered that Cecil's daughter was christened in Brussels on 24 July 1936!

From the London Gazette, it is also clear that he was a solicitor based in Brussels until he was struck off in 1941.

I'm now looking forward to my next visit to the TNA but, as I always pre-order documents, it is unlikely that I will be caught unaware by a strike - not that I was even aware that there were any in the offing.

It's fascinating that our GA postings on Kurt Jahnke are still generating so much interest and, thanks to my own site, I have been advised that, although captured in 1945, he was not executed until 22 April 1950 - per the FSB Archive, Moscow.

All the Best

Bryan

 

probo 

Customer

 12 Jun 2011 17:49 UTCSun 12 Jun 2011 - 5:49 pm UTC 

Many thanks David

Your continued interest is much appreciated.

Accordingly, if ever you happen to visit the TNA, I shall certainly buy your lunch.

Incidentally, I had a delicious Potato and Aubergine Bake for mine yesterday. Highly recommended!

All the Best

Bryan

 

Paul 

Researcher

 12 Jun 2011 17:56 UTCSun 12 Jun 2011 - 5:56 pm UTC 

Thank you very much for the 5 stars and tip.
Just out of curiosity, was Kurt Jahnke's wife executed with him in 1950?

All the best

Paul

 

myoarin 

User

 12 Jun 2011 18:00 UTCSun 12 Jun 2011 - 6:00 pm UTC 

Hmm?  Surprising that no one has linked and reconciled the details on the Wikipedia English and German sites for Kurt and Karl J., respectively.

David, do take up Bryan's offer.  The TNA gives you a nice ID that makes you feel like a big time, archive-delving researcher.  Of course, you are, without a TNA ID.

 

probo 

Customer

 12 Jun 2011 18:52 UTCSun 12 Jun 2011 - 6:52 pm UTC 

Sorry Paul but I have no info on Jahnke's wife.

Myo, there are so many mistakes on Wiki that I have lost count.

David, you don't need a Pass to enter the TNA canteen but if you bring 2 forms of ID - one with a photo - then a Pass can be obtained.

 

q21 

Researcher

 12 Jun 2011 19:55 UTCSun 12 Jun 2011 - 7:55 pm UTC 

Bryan,

I am currently accessing the internet in a hotel. So I haven't got the time to look at all the links mentioned. But, just in case you're interested, here is some additional information from
http://www.ancestry.co.uk (FreeBMD)
The birth of Cecil Gerald F. Salinger was registered in Hastings (Oct-Nov-Dec 1901) and his marriage in Westminster (Jan-Feb-Mar 1936). This marriage appears to be registered twice: under "S" as "Cecil G. F. Salinger" and under "F” as "Cecil G. Furnivall-Salinger". His wife was Margaret A. Stone.
His death was registered in Southampton (Jan-Feb-Mar 1966) as "Cecil G. Furnivall".

Regards,
q21

 

probo 

Customer

 13 Jun 2011 05:24 UTCMon 13 Jun 2011 - 5:24 am UTC 

Many thanks Q21, it's great to hear from you again!

Your contribution is as always much appreciated but it reminds me that you have been promising to visit the TNA for some 20 years or so.

But please bring an umbrella - it never stopped raining here yesterday.

In the meantime, please avoid all domestic organic crops - Spanish imports appear much healthier.

All the Best

Bryan

 

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